Markets (and jobs) are driven by scarcity: I have something that you want. We trade something or another so that you can have it.
This does not imply that I have something of tremendous value, or that is necessary for you to stay alive, or that is cherished by all. Simply that you want it, and I have it. It doesn't even have to be a tangible thing.
One of many huge philosophical problems I had with Star Trek: The Next Generation was a future that was imagined without money. Best I could figure, the idea being that once we reach some level, scarcity is no longer relevant.
This is ludicrous. Or, if it's not ludicrous, it supposes that we will reach some state that has never before existed in any complex market system that we've ever explored: a state of zero leverage. That is, even in a world where you can snap your fingers and get anything, people are going to value those who can think up the coolest things to make, right? In any world you can imagine, there are always trades to make. That is, there are always markets. To imagine otherwise would be to imagine a state of human existence that is perpetually happy and never wants anything novel. Does that exist outside of drug abusers and stagnant societies? Would we even wish such a life on our progeny?
I wouldn't.
Don't get me wrong: I think we have many hurdles ahead, and the road is going to get bumpy. In my future, mankind creates a new set of morals around what it means to be human. Do I really want my every thought shared with the collective? Every piece of data about my life to be available to everyone? Fuck that noise. But to each his own. I think this decision about the role of technology in our lives is going to be the turning point. Note that I'm all for trans-humanism: bring on the nanotech and augmented bodies. Just never take away my identity and value my own existence independently as something worthwhile to all of us. We need billions of independently-acting free agents. Not one hive mind.
But worst of all for this libertarian was where we ended up with in this article: the same old bullshit of "Find a problem. Find an academic. Describe the problem. Exaggerate a bit. Suggest some master plan for salvation." I have seen this pattern of article so many times somebody needs to come up with a name for it.
...we should take money from automating industries to fund a state guided program that gives money to consumers in exchange for working at bettering themselves. Sounds like a decent plan. Never gonna happen....
Underline: we do not know how all of this is going to turn out. The entire purpose of writing books like he has (and writing comments like I am) is to explore the problem, not get magic wands out and speculate on solutions. I don't think we're anywhere near understanding what the problems are, much less coming up with centralized systems for fixing them. And this is true in a lot more areas that futuristic fear-mongering. It's wonderful that he took the time to come up with some kind of socialized fix for a particular imagined future-world, but the fix is a little bit too predictable for me [insert long, drawn-out argument over the problems with these kinds of fixes]. I wish he would have just left it off.
In Voyage from Yesteryear, the author (James P. Hogan) describes a post-scarcity society. Quote from a summary of the book:
Since the availability of power from fusion reactors and cheap automated labor has enabled them to develop a post-scarcity economy, they do not use money as a means of exchange, nor do they recognize material possessions as symbols of status. Instead, competence and talent are considered symbolic of one's social standing – resources that cannot be counterfeited or hoarded, and must be put to use if they are to be acknowledged. As a result, the competitive drive that fuels capitalist financial systems has filled the colony with the products of decades of incredible artistic and technical talent, and there are no widespread hierarchies. No one person or group of people can know everything, so no one person or group of people is expected to speak for all. They have no centralized authorities; some would say they have no government at all.
Ouch. Did this author ever watch a gaggle of teenage girls purchase things? "competence and talent" have very little to do with it.
That's why I mentioned the importance of not becoming a hive mind -- much purchasing (and trading) is done as the result of social pressure, not some futuristic idea of a meritocracy or even need. In the real world, with real people, if we don't keep our minds separate, we'll end up in this huge common mind where each little whim is judged socially, promoted socially, then manufacturing and trading decisions are made for everybody at one time, then on to the next thing. But even then, even in that terribly-imagined future, immediacy becomes a tradeable commodity. You just can't get away from trading.
Quite frankly, it's easy for somebody who fancies themselves an expert (and even I fit this category by pontificating here) to imagine some type of meritocracy, usually with their own values as universal. Plato started it, so he's in good company. But this is foolish in the extreme -- it assumes some ultimate value system shared by all mankind, it assumes some metric for that value system, and it assumes each individual would evaluate that metric the same way at all times. This is just too much. Way too much. If anything, if we continue to interconnect, it'll be social proof all the way down. Creativity and competence will have nothing to do with anything.
At some point, no matter who you are, you need to expose yourself and your ideas to those outside your little clique. Hence the importance of continuing to discuss these types of problems. These ideas strike me as highly provincial.
I think the argument is slightly more convoluted, so it survives your criticisms.
Let's imagine a society where there is one thing which everybody wants (say, food) which is controlled by one big corporation (say, monsanto) with few owners. There very well can be a parallel economy between people, but for the economy to function the few owners of this big corporation must want stuff from random people just as much as people want food. The moment this small number of people control something which far more people want than they want anything you will have an infinite sink; that is, each year a certain supply of everybody's wealth will be "eaten up" by the corporation without anything flowing back in return. With technology you can conceivably have a few of these (say, Larry Page or Mark Zuckerberg can't possibly want enough things to not be effectively huge money sinks in the short term), and if you have enough of these you will have a crippled economy.
> Let's imagine a society where there is one thing which everybody wants (say, food) which is controlled by one big corporation (say, monsanto) with few owners.
Why imagine that and not unicorns that fart gold bricks?
Yes, unicorns don't exist, but your scenario doesn't exist without significant govt intervention, intervention that doesn't have to occur.
This does not imply that I have something of tremendous value, or that is necessary for you to stay alive, or that is cherished by all. Simply that you want it, and I have it. It doesn't even have to be a tangible thing.
One of many huge philosophical problems I had with Star Trek: The Next Generation was a future that was imagined without money. Best I could figure, the idea being that once we reach some level, scarcity is no longer relevant.
This is ludicrous. Or, if it's not ludicrous, it supposes that we will reach some state that has never before existed in any complex market system that we've ever explored: a state of zero leverage. That is, even in a world where you can snap your fingers and get anything, people are going to value those who can think up the coolest things to make, right? In any world you can imagine, there are always trades to make. That is, there are always markets. To imagine otherwise would be to imagine a state of human existence that is perpetually happy and never wants anything novel. Does that exist outside of drug abusers and stagnant societies? Would we even wish such a life on our progeny?
I wouldn't.
Don't get me wrong: I think we have many hurdles ahead, and the road is going to get bumpy. In my future, mankind creates a new set of morals around what it means to be human. Do I really want my every thought shared with the collective? Every piece of data about my life to be available to everyone? Fuck that noise. But to each his own. I think this decision about the role of technology in our lives is going to be the turning point. Note that I'm all for trans-humanism: bring on the nanotech and augmented bodies. Just never take away my identity and value my own existence independently as something worthwhile to all of us. We need billions of independently-acting free agents. Not one hive mind.
But worst of all for this libertarian was where we ended up with in this article: the same old bullshit of "Find a problem. Find an academic. Describe the problem. Exaggerate a bit. Suggest some master plan for salvation." I have seen this pattern of article so many times somebody needs to come up with a name for it.
...we should take money from automating industries to fund a state guided program that gives money to consumers in exchange for working at bettering themselves. Sounds like a decent plan. Never gonna happen....
Underline: we do not know how all of this is going to turn out. The entire purpose of writing books like he has (and writing comments like I am) is to explore the problem, not get magic wands out and speculate on solutions. I don't think we're anywhere near understanding what the problems are, much less coming up with centralized systems for fixing them. And this is true in a lot more areas that futuristic fear-mongering. It's wonderful that he took the time to come up with some kind of socialized fix for a particular imagined future-world, but the fix is a little bit too predictable for me [insert long, drawn-out argument over the problems with these kinds of fixes]. I wish he would have just left it off.