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It doesn't really matter what Epic is doing. Loot boxes, game engines, and game mechanics aren't the issue here. The issue is that I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want. You know what? I played Fortnite and I hated it. I won't be installing Fortnite or buying any skins for it. But, Epic has the right to offer their product to me without interference. Apple already has $1000 of my money (actually wayyyy more than that), and now I don't want them involved in my life anymore. I think I'm entitled to that.

> (also not to mention Epic blatantly ripped off the success of PUBG when they switched Fortnite to be a Battle Royale game)

I think Epic did it better. That's why we don't give intellectual property rights to vague ideas like "100 players parachute into an island and shoot each other" or "after a certain amount of time a circle kills people outside of it". PUBG had their take -- super boring stakeouts to get hyper-realistic weapons. Fortnite had their take -- cartoony jumping around while you build forts. Players can choose which they want to play. (And, of course, there are like 8 billion other battle royales.)



> The issue is that I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want.

That's your opinion. That is not what's supported by our current technology/copyright/intellectual property-related laws.

Please be clear about that.


That is not what's supported by our current technology/copyright/intellectual property-related laws.

That is your opinion. Please be clear about that.

Currently, what Apple is doing violates EU and US antitrust laws. It's not a matter of what the user wants. It's a matter of Apple abusing its market position.


> Currently, what Apple is doing violates EU and US antitrust laws

Please provide legal documents equivocally stating this.



It's not actually the Sherman Antitrust Act they violate, since that law specifically requires a monopoly.

It's the followup laws broadening the Sherman Antitrust Act that Apple violates. The amendments to the Sherman Act target anti-competitive behavior that results in market distortive effects, even in the absence of a monopoly. This includes price-fixing, collusion, and using leverage in one market to interfere with the market dynamics of another (usually smaller) market (see, e.g., Microsoft). There is at least one landmark case in which minor market participants were found to have violated the antitrust laws because their collusion would have anticompetitive effects even though their combined market share was less than half of the market, though the case dates to a more active time in antitrust jurisprudence.

Apple is no stranger to anti-competitive behavior; they are in fact the banner case for the last big antitrust case...which similarly did not involve a monopoly of any sort. (The book price-fixing case.)


This is almost entirely wrong. The Sherman Act has 2 sections. Section 1 prohibits actions like price fixing and bid rigging regardless of market power. It's section 2 that prohibits monopolization and requires monopoly power.

The majority of antitrust claims are brought under the Sherman Act. Apple's ebook price fixing case was brought under Section 1 of the Sherman Act.

All of Epic's federal claims against Apple are alleged violations of the Sherman Act.


Epic alleges Apple has violated the Sherman Act. They have not proven this in a court of law, nor is it clear that they actually will succeed in doing so.


Just to clarify, in this case, Apple has violated Section 2 of the Sherman Act due to having a monopoly on Apple services?


> Apple has violated Section 2 of the Sherman Act due to having a monopoly on Apple services?

Sort of. There are two possible avenues of attack here against Apple. And it depends on how the market is defined.

1: if the "market" is defined as you have, which is a "monopoly on apple services", then it absolutely true that Apple does have a monopoly on the specific market as defined by "Apple services", and I would accept 10 to 1 betting odds on that.

BUT, I think it is a bit of a stretch that the "market" will be defined that narrowly. Instead I think that the market will be defined as the smartphone market share of the USA.

2: If the market is defined as the smartphone market, in the USA, then the argument will be that Apple has control of ~50% of the market, in a 2 entity duopoly. It is a common misconception, that anti-trust law only applies in cases, of a overwhelming singular monopoly. Instead, anti-trust law, applies even in cases where there is not a singular monopoly, and the company in question only has significant market power.

Controlling 50% of the market share, is a bit on the edge of whether anti-trust law applies, or does not apply, as according to government guidance. So the case is far from a slam dunk, and I think that there will be interesting arguments brought up in court.

But, even though Apple has less market share than, say Microsoft did, when Microsoft lost their anti-trust case, I think that Apple's actions are significantly more restrictive than Microsoft's was, and thus this contributing factor will push them over the edge into losing the case.

I expect that this case will be a landmark case, that will determine future court actions, and will be even more significant than the microsoft case was.


No, Apple, among other things, has violated the laws against anticompetitive behavior by attempting to exert its market dominance in one market (iPhones) over a separate market (app stores) by engaging in punitive and market-distortive actions against potential competitors.

Similar antitrust violations of the same nature: iMusic vs Spotify, iChat vs Hey/other chat programs, Apple Webkit vs all other browsers.

I would have included Apple Pay but in that instance Apple lost, largely because their actions in other markets made it extremely undesirable for merchants and payment processors to get behind Apple's vision of Apple Pay in which Apple skimmed X% for providing absolutely no value to the transaction. In fact, so many retailers found Apple to be an undesirable partner that a number of major retailers disabled Apple Pay integration on their NFC-capable payment terminals. For example, most Kroger locations (like Ralphs) take Google Pay, Samsung Pay, Garmin Pay, and most other app-based NFC payment methods...but not Apple Pay. (Apple's situation is similar to American Express, which also charges significantly higher rates to retailers than its competitors, but unlike Apple, Amex actually processes transactions and theoretically provides valule to retailers, just not enough to justify its Appleesque rates.)


> The issue is that I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want.

And, likewise, Apple, as the platform owner, should be able to deny access whatever software they want.

You can of course, jailbreak your iphone, or install PWA's that work.


I am just waiting untill car companies as "platform owners" start preventing you from driving to areas they don't like, or exceeding speed limit.

Afterall, you just paid for the car, they still own the software that controls the engine.


> I am just waiting untill car companies as "platform owners" start preventing you from driving to areas they don't like, or exceeding speed limit.

Maybe just don’t buy that car then?


Just like I should buy a phone without a restrictive app store installed by default that bans apps capriciously?


Exactly, if you don't like the way Apple does things don't buy an iPhone and don't develop software for iPhones. Very simple.


My point was that Android is the same deal.


[flagged]


Then don’t buy that washing machine... how is this hard to understand?


And eventually your only option will be to live in a cave.


> Afterall, you just paid for the car, they still own the software that controls the engine.

They do this to an extent already.

Aftermarket ECU Tunes can often invalidate your warranty.

Most OEM infotainment headunits are not user upgradable.

GPS Maps must be refreshed through the dealer.

In the US there is a governor that limits how fast a car can go.


Wait till your microwave oven doesn't want to cook the food you want and paid for.


Why wait? it's always been possible and legal, just like Kcups and Juicero do, or did.


Then I use the stove?


imagine saying this about microsoft when they were dominant


Apple is far from dominant.

Android is by far the most dominate mobile platform worldwide.


> I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want

And you can. You just need to bypass Apple's security mechanisms.


You can murder people all you like too, as long as you figure out how to never get caught.


You can, without bypassing security mechanisms. Simply acquire a free developer certificate to sign your own binaries. They work for a week but you can re-sign them.


Free developer accounts have more restriction than paid accounts do, which is already nowhere close to “I want to run anything on my device”.


That breaks ToS.


And? All that means is they can refuse to service the device which to me makes sense.


> The issue is that I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want.

Could one not argue that you are able to do this by jailbreaking your iOS-device, which the courts have deemed perfectly legal?

It seems to me that one owns the phone, but not necessarily the operating system it runs.




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