I'm American but grew up in the Canal Zone. I've been in Germany a lot the past two years. My girlfriend is German and lives in Berlin. My impression is that Germans really do believe they are the best. They will never say so publicly but deep down they really believe it.
My girlfriend's dad joked about Americans and hamburgers. I offered to make him one since he'd never had one. He emphatically said no. I'm a picky eater and hate cabbage. I politely declined to try some of his dishes because of the cabbage thing. He asked if Americans were always unwilling to try new things. I pointed out that he wouldn't try a hamburger and he got upset. He didn't see it as hypocritical. (It didn't bother me that he didn't want to try one. I don't care what people are or aren't willing to eat.)
There were other things and then it dawned on me. He really thinks his was is the best and can't understand how someone would think differently. He was in the Wehrmacht and his attitudes gave me a creepy feeling.
I know this is anecdotal but I've gotten this impression from many Germans of different ages. Germans think they are better. It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance.
You might enjoy Whit Stillman's movie Barcelona which is partly about inter-cultural romance, as well as the cultural role of hamburgers. After mocking McDonald's and hamburgers while dating in Barcelona, in the final scene of the movie, they enjoy a real burger from the grill and decide it's pretty good after all:
Did it occur to your girlfriend's Dad that the name "Hamburger" might indicate something about the origin of the dish? I wonder if that would impact his interest in trying it.
Yeah, he's a WW II vet. My dad passed away in December and he was a WW II vet. My dad fought the Germans and he never said a bad word about Germans or Germany. None that I ever heard. My girlfriend's dad? I've heard plenty from him about Americans (in a negative sense).
My girlfriend's dad fought on the Eastern front and he tells stories about how uncivilized the Soviets were. He doesn't say the word but it sort of hangs in the air unspoken; untermensch. He was also in the Auschwitz area for a while as a guard. It's tough being around him and I avoid it as much as I can. It's very uncomfortable.
No, he doesn't seem to mind me. He does have his prejudices with regard to America. (The amis is the derogatory German term.)
Two months ago I had lunch with him, another former Wehrmacht soldier and three women from that generation. The other guy was extremely rude. He said many derogatory things about Americans and American prisoner of war camp guards (my dad was such a guard after the war). I don't speak German and didn't know about this until after the dinner when my girlfriend interpreted for me.
I was pissed at her for not letting me know what he said until after he left. She didn't want a scene to be caused. No one in the group said anything to the man or to correct him or to say that he was full of shit. They all kept cheerfully engaged in conversation.
What's amazing to me is that the great crime of that generation was silence. Few spoke out against racist talk. Few stood up against foolish rantings. Sixty years later here was a group of Germans from that generation still afraid to speak up. Still afraid of causing a scene (and my girlfriend too!).
It was absolutely shocking. I was really pissed because my dad had died a few weeks earlier and it was hard to hear this stuff from the likes of these people. No Wehrmacht soldier has the right to call another uncivilized and he did call Americans uncivilized.
The whole thing caused me to reflect a lot. It's something I'll never forget. My girlfriend's generation suffers from what I call "the German guilt thing". Her father's generation doesn't seem to have ever come to grips with what they did.
This is all anecdotal of course. But in my dealings with other Germans it's clear to me that Germans on a whole do think they are better (or their way of life is better) than anyone else. They won't say this anymore but deep down there appears to be an "uber alles" bent.
Other people have different experiences and come to different conclusions than me. This is all just my opinion. I guess the crux of what I'm saying is that it is easy to feel superior and such arrogance isn't limited to Americans. There are lots of examples in the history of the world of such thinking. It's bad whenever it occurs and the worst form of it is to ignore it in your culture while condemning it in other cultures.
You might have a thin skin. Old soldiers (and old people in general) say outrageous things all the time. My grandpa is also a ww2 vet and busts out new offensive material every time I visit. Even the hyper educated oldsters do it. 8 years ago I went to a lecture by James Watson and he spent the whole 45 minutes making racist jokes about Asian people...
Your last sentence seems to imply that I do have a thin skin. It's possible. It's also possible that the generation of Germans that brought us Auschwitz is a disconcerting one to me and justifiably so.
Would you have lunch with Rudolf Hoss and be pleasant to him? What about a guard there? Perhaps the discomfort in me has to do with the fact that so many Germans committed atrocities and my conclusion is that I am no better. That is, in the same situation I would have done the same thing.
I could have a thin skin. By the way, my experience with men who saw combat - real combat - don't talk about it. The will tell a few anecdotes but nothing to do with combat. The ones who talk about their war experiences usually aren't the ones who actually did any fighting.
Please don't portray your girlfriend's dad's attitude as the attitude of the entire German population! No offense, but the way you're talking paints a very negative picture of some 80 million people. I realize this is obvious to everyone reading this, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Yes, thank you, I know who the Wehrmacht were. I paid attention in history class.
More so I'm just surprised when I run across any veteran of WWII. FYI, no you don't run across WWII vets "all the time." Most of them are in their eighties or nineties at this point, and there aren't too many people of that age, let alone specifically WWII vets.
Mainly I was just surprised by a very random piece of information. You certainly don't hear about the German veterans of WWII in America all that much. I hope you're bright enough to figure out why.
Here, it is not at all uncommon to hear that somebodies grandfather is or was a vet. There were something like 15 million of them just from the US as I recall. For someone a decade or two older than myself (he says it was her father, not grandfather, so you can get a good guess at their ages...), encountering veterans would be only that much more common.
"You certainly don't hear about the German veterans of WWII in America all that much."
"My girlfriend is German and lives in Berlin."
I am under the strong impression that her father lives in Germany....
EDIT: Furthermore: "The total number of soldiers who served in the Wehrmacht during its existence from 1935-1945 is believed to have approached 18.2 million." With numbers like that, this hardly seems like such a particularly odd occurrance.
Well, one thing that is odd is that I'm under 40. I didn't mention this though. But I did grow up in the Canal Zone and have a colonial/imperial perspective on the issue of national arrogance.
Hearing that someone's grandfather was a vet is quite common, yes. And the number is 16 million. That said, most of them are dead now. So these days, for someone like myself - barely thirty - it is, in fact, quite uncommon to run across a living WWII veteran. I never have, and neither has anyone I know. I assume things are different for people in older generations. In other news, the sky is blue.
And yes, I am well aware that the father mentioned lived in Germany. Not only did I pay attention in history class, I can also read.
I was asking someone else a question about their story, and you respond by acting like I've grown a second head for being curious, and giving me a definition of a basic term related to the discussion.
My girlfriend's dad joked about Americans and hamburgers. I offered to make him one since he'd never had one. He emphatically said no. I'm a picky eater and hate cabbage. I politely declined to try some of his dishes because of the cabbage thing. He asked if Americans were always unwilling to try new things. I pointed out that he wouldn't try a hamburger and he got upset. He didn't see it as hypocritical. (It didn't bother me that he didn't want to try one. I don't care what people are or aren't willing to eat.)
There were other things and then it dawned on me. He really thinks his was is the best and can't understand how someone would think differently. He was in the Wehrmacht and his attitudes gave me a creepy feeling.
I know this is anecdotal but I've gotten this impression from many Germans of different ages. Germans think they are better. It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance.