Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
'Back to the Mac' Official Apple Livestream (edgesuite.net)
51 points by koichi on Oct 20, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 102 comments


Re: the Air... Man, Apple has balls.

The 11.6" is interesting, note it's 720p exactly (1366x768). Note also he said he sees it as the "future of the macbook", and the future of the macbook has no obviously removable/upgradable HDD (it's like RAM on the motherboard, so maybe it will somehow be upgradable).

People who didn't like Apple products yesterday aren't going to like them today either, but it's interesting stuff...

edit:

Flash storage ranges from 64 gigs to 256 gigs (depending on size/choices).


"I'd like it if the Air was about half the size. I don't know why Apple won't make something in between the Air and an iPhone." --pg, http://paul.graham.usesthis.com/

On another note, the 2 GB of RAM on the Air worries me--that's not a large amount anymore, and I'm dubious on swapping a lot to the flash memory--it'll be faster than swapping to HD, but swapping--especially if it happens a lot, as it would with only 2 GB of RAM--is a use case that puts a lot of wear on flash memory.


Expandable to 4G, but yeah, 2G really is a minimum these days.


But that only raises new questions. Can you even open the case and upgrade the RAM yourself, or do you have to overpay Apple when you buy the thing?


4GB is $100 more. At some point apple stopped overcharging for RAM. They now charge more than the minimum you can find it for from fly by night places (As they do with everything) But in line with market prices.


I really (honestly) can't wait to see how they do in the market, because the prices are so steep compared to the metrics that other people look at when shopping for laptops (display size, storage, speed). I don't even think Apple is gouging here; the unibody construction and flash storage are both pretty expensive.

So, Apple is pretty much saying, "Yeah, price, we're really not gonna compete on that" ... if that ends up working out well for them, that could be an interesting signal to other companies.


I think higher pricing is actually an advantage for Apple. It sets them to be somewhat "luxury" products. Not "signal I am rich" luxury, but to the point that they are more desirable for it. If they were priced the same as other laptops, and were as ubiquitous, I think they would those some of their appeal to some people.


Apple is growing Mac sales at significantly higher rates than the rest of the PC market. Apple has been competitive with others on prices for about 20 years.

Apple doesn't compete on the low end of the market. The people who think Apple is expensive are the people who compare an ATOM internet pad to a Macbook Pro and think they are both the same value because they are both "laptops".


Well, shit, I had no idea that I compared Atom "internet pad"s to Macbook Pros that way.

Thanks for the valuable insight!

Bah, commenting on HN is a complete waste of time anymore.


It totally is. You express anything that goes against the rigid leftist freetard ideology and you get voted down and people start putting words in your mouth, like you just did. (If you read my actual post, I never said you said that.)


I wonder if the Macbook Pro has a different future (or not).


Looked to me like the SSD is cooked right on to the motherboard.


Yeah, I mentioned RAM only because it looked like a "stick", and hopefully attached like RAM (meaning removable and not with some kind of proprietary connection).


Not even an SSD, it's flash-meets-RAM.


No, it's an SSD without a case.


I didn't spot anything that looked like a drive controller on-board. Form factor is much closer to RAM, too ... not that it matters much, it's just an interesting design decision.


In the leaked photo you can see the Toshiba SSD controller right next to the flash chips.


Got a link handy? Didn't know there was a leaked photo.


He mentioned it was "up to 2x faster". I thought SSDs were significantly faster than HDDs?


Keep in mind that Apple uses the slowest SSDs available; they're so slow that stores like NewEgg don't carry them. The performance difference also depends on the workload; 2x is reasonable for sequential access.


Please let the RAM be upgradeable, at least from the apple store...


Can go to 4GB. I'm betting it's still soldered on, and therefore unupgradable.

The SSD may be removable from the look of things.


[deleted]


I don't think they changed it. There is probably just not enough room for the glass pane. I expect future larger MacBooks to be shipped with the black bezel as before.


The Air already had that color bezel...it was the last holdout, I believe (other than the white MacBook which I imagine is now replaced).


720p is a video standard that specifies a resolution of 1280x720 in progressive format (hence the name "720p") Apple, fortunately, seems to be sizing their screens based on HD formats, but giving some extra space for UI chrome.


Ah, good point. HD TVs are often (usually?) 1366x768. I guess they just picked that to provide room for chrome as you suggest? Seems an odd reason to go with 1366 and not 1360, and for video you'd think they'd promote using fullscreen anyway...


Multi-touch gestures, App store, home screens, full-screen apps, auto save, auto resume apps when launched.

As long as the App Store isn't the only way to put software on my Mac, sounds like a great idea to me.


As long as the App Store isn't the only way to put software on my Mac, sounds like a great idea to me.

I heard Steve specifically say something along the lines of "it's not the only way" when introducing the Mac App Store.


It will become the de facto way people look for applications and if yours isn't there, then it may as well not exist.


I can't see AutoDesk or Adobe going through the App Store, or Apple wanting to carry giant apps.


Why wouldn't they want to carry giant apps? Improves experience for the user, and they would still get 30% of the higher prices of giant apps.


Consider the frequency of patches for apps like the CS5 suite.

Now consider frequent updates consisting of a full download of the whole suite for every little update, rather than a little patch or bundle.


As long as the App Store isn't the only way to put software on my Mac, sounds like a great idea to me.

That will be in Lion + 1. Gotta warm the users up to it, first.


I'd be incredibly surprised - being able to compile form source is kind of vital for many users.


People assume apple wants absolute control. They don't. They want absolutely great user experiences. Personal Computers are a different category from mobile devices. Apple keeps your mobile device safe, but lets you browse any website you want, because the damage is minimal. On your computer, apple lets you do whatever you want.


Apple keeps your mobile device safe

Which sounds like a pretty good selling point for future Macs, no?


They are a different class of product. I would not be surprised for apple to allow a parental control to lock a given mac down to just appstore apps. This is a nice feature.

Since steve jobs explicitly said this is not going to be the only way to install software, all this speculation is dishonest.

The funny thing is, he shouldn't have had to say that. You should know apple well enough (Rather than listen to the nonsense from the nondevelopers who are bosting page views by bashing apple) to know that apple would never force people to only buy mac software via the appstore.


Finally, a plus/maximize button that does something I want it to.


Wow, there's going to be a Mac app store.

EDIT: Looks more or less like iTunes. No word on the submission or approval process. Steve said something (can't remember what exactly) that indicated that this wasn't going to be the only way to get apps.


note that it's not in iTunes, thankfully.

Also, check the open/close buttons, they're inline with the toolbar..


But they are still 'floating' in space (rather than top-aligned), and there appears to be no discrete 'title bar' area... I'm not too hot on this particular design myself.


If you're a registered Mac Developer, everything you need to know is already up at developer.apple.com

This includes submission and approval processes, documentation, etc.


So basically it looks like it's going to be a package manager on a unix-like system with a pretty front end and review from people I don't care about.


On that note, I am interested to see how long it takes for open source projects to get onto the Apple sanctioned store, but also for someone to create a clone of it (like Cydia, somewhat)


That's certainly one way to put it...


Except that it won't suck.


Oh look, a netbook.

But 1.4G? Really? I love how they keep saying "fast processor" in the presentation, where "fast processor" is apparently two steps backwards in CPU technology. :-) The GPU is decent, however.

Is it me, or does anyone else see the point? I hope this isn't the "future of notebooks", because that future would seem to be anemic performance.


I don't care about speed as long as I don't notice it. What the MBA has is probably enough for the vast majority of users, only the RAM seems weak to me.


You're going to notice 1.4G. Anyone who has taken more than 1000 photos and has put them in iphoto is going to notice 1.4G, or actually tried to use garageband is going to notice 1.4G.


It's faster than Atom. If you want real performance the MBP is there.


Which is also why it is not a netbook. Apple haters have it both ways- they complain the processor is too slow compared to a macbook pro, and that the price is too high compared to an atom running netbook.

sigh.


Ah, but if it were a netbook it would be under $400.


The bottleneck these days is so rarely CPU, it's disks. Doesn't look like the new Air has particularly speedy Flash storage, but it'll be so much faster than a spinning disk because of it. Keep the gigahertz, give me fast I/O.


Since getting a macbook, I've found the window management in OS X to be terribly confusing (Xmonad is easier to understand IMO), so I'm looking forward to seeing how the new window management features work. Hopefully this will solve my gripes.


Xmonad is easier to understand IMO

Ooh, that's harsh, but I feel your pain. If you like tiling, though, you may want to check this out (although I don't use it): http://www.mizage.com/divvy/


I keep thinking Apple (2000- present) is like The Beatles of my time. A streak of brilliance that will never be duplicated.


I think that comparison flatters The Beatles.



Who all is providing a liveblog?

Some of us are in public places w/o headphones, I'd prefer to read it than to watch it.



http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/20/apple-to-livestream-todays-...

Apple says "Safari on Snow Leopard or IOS 3 or above only." There's a link there on how to get it on other computers.


Doesn't seem to work for me in Chrome, works fine in Webkit/Safari. Here's the direct URL: http://qthttp.apple.com.edgesuite.net/1010qwoeiuryfg/sl.m3u8


Heh, I tried Chrome for the last event and got the same "check back later" message and though it was too busy. I didn't even see the 'Streaming video requires Safari 4 or 5 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard or Safari on iOS 3 or later' message.

Would a Flash fallback kill them ;)


Facetime on OSX is expected but huge.


I don't really get it. Why is this a big deal?


It's a big deal in that it's one further step towards making phone carriers irrelevant.


Because every Mac laptop and iMac for the past ~3 (?) years has shipped with a built-in camera.

edit: To be clear, "huge" is relative, it's a big deal for the potential legitimacy of Facetime since the potential user base just grew quite a bit.


But iChat has already done video conferencing on macs for some time, right? (Not to mention skype.) So this is different because it can also connect to iPhones, provided the iPhone user is on WiFi. Doesn't seem too useful to me.

Now, if they announced that Facetime would work over the cell network, at least that would be something new.


> So this is different because it can also connect to iPhones (...)

That's exactly why I think it's a big deal.

There are already techs/apps/whatever that let people video chat and video chat with phones, but Apple has a pretty good track record at exposing this kind of thing in a way such that non-techies actually use it.


Video chat with people who have new iPhones and are connected to WiFi is a thing lots of people want to do?


I'm speaking in terms of FaceTime as a feature of the iPhone. As an iChat/OSX feature it is not remarkable, but as a iPhone 4 feature, you now have a significant pool of people you can now video chat with that you couldn't before (through Facetime).


All those people can use Skype. Skype is a more well known brand than FaceTime currently. Plus they can Skype their Windows buddies, but they can't FaceTime them.

What was with the multiple references to a "FaceTime Camera" anyway? I'm assuming it's not FaceTime only. I wouldn't call my Macbooks cam a "Skype Camera" either...


They can still use Skype, and "something else is better known" has never been a reason not to introduce an alternative.

And what you're seeing is branding. It used to be an iSight camera, now it's a FaceTime Camera.


"has never been a reason not to introduce an alternative"

If you read what I wrote again, you'll notice how I never suggested anything of the sort.


Ah, I got the impression you were saying "why FaceTime if there is Skype".


It's not really gonna be a big deal, but you gotta consider there's an Apple keynote being broadcasted live right now, that usually means RDF is pulsing at 100%, so my advise is hide and don't question anything!


I downvotted you because I think it's harmful to the discussion to be dismissive of others and their opinions, even if they appear to you to be under some kind of a spell.

FWIW, whatever he said sounded attractive to me, but I think they have painted themselves into a corner having saturated their own high-end market with gadgets, and are now getting into the sub $1k notebook \w keyboard market. As attractive as their offerings are, I have no doubt that it's no match to the stampede of Androids that's gonna run over them; equally speced at half the price.


Of course there will never be an android device that is equally specced but half the price. This is just the kind of lie that apple bashers have been spreading for decades. Falsely comparing the Air to a netbook running atom processors and claiming that Apple is overpriced. Reality is, for the market segments apple competes in, they generally deliver significantly more value for slightly less price. But getting an honest comparison from apple bashers is pointless-- they don't really care, they just hate apple.


Come ooon. We just went through the name calling thing with the parent, and now you're being his dialectic-opposite with the 'apple-basher' label.


You don't get to criticize me about name calling when you did so in the post I was responding to. If you don't want to be called an apple basher, don't say asinine things like "android device with the same specs for half the price."


Spec on the Air are up: http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html

Factory upgradable processors, SSD, and memory (to 4GB).



No word on Lion having a new Finder app. It is once of the main reasons I prefer Windows over Mac.

As an aside, the Mac App store is actually one of the ideas I applied to YC with. Guess that has no hope now.


They just re-wrote the Finder for Snow Leopard, so that was a bit of an unlikely wish.


It will be interesting to see if these 10.7 multitouch features work on my 3 1/2 year old Macbook Pro. Recent multitouch feature additions haven't worked, so I'm not terribly hopeful.


pretty sure multitouch requires hardware support. The last gen non-unibody MBP is the oldest model to support most multitouch gestures (more than just two finger scrolling, which has been around for at least 4 years)


App store in 90 days. Submissions accepted starting in November.


Yeah. I'd write a longer comment, but I now have a hard deadline to get my Mac app finished. Thank you Apple!


Has always worked for me on the iPad. Funny, how that works out.


Great, Quicktime. If only it were available in a more open format, like Flash.


ffmpeg supports Apple's live streaming format which is open.


As for a player, I believe there is support for it in the VLC nightlies.



Just tried it, it doesn't have support in it.



I think martythemaniak is making a joke about Apple claiming that Android is not really "open."


Partly yes. A few months ago I saw the google IO link here, clicked on it and worked (Youtube live stream).

I see this, I click it, and I get a half-broken page telling me I can't view this. I then have the option of fishing for a URL, googling how to use it on my system, follow the advice (installing any codecs or applications if necessary) and finally maybe viewing it.

Now, what does Apple say about user experience again?


> Now, what does Apple say about user experience again?

That you'd have a better one if you were using their products.

That's the whole sales pitch, after all.


Apple has documented HTTP Live Streaming as an Internet-Draft, the first stage in the process of submitting it to the IETF as a proposed Internet standard.


Fabulous. Except until it actually becomes reality, you're stuck with Quicktime (or if you're on Linux, you're just plain stuck).


if ffmpeg supports it, wouldn't mplayer be able to play it?


It doesn't work with anything for me on Win7.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: